Why not do open loop system?
Last Post 23 Nov 2009 08:25 AM by joe.ami. 25 Replies.
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engineerUser is Offline
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22 Nov 2009 07:58 AM
If we assume for the sake of discussion that OPs year round deep earth temp is 55, I would think you'd wind up with a closed loop EWT of 75 summer, 35 winter. Pinching those numbers closer to 55 would require prohibitively expensive extra loopfield as well as increasing closed loop pumping costs.

A systems approach is needed - both alternative efficiency calculations must include the pumping component.

I think we are all saying the same thing different ways.
Curt Kinder <br><br>

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
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22 Nov 2009 10:46 PM
So it sounds like no one has any objections to an open loop if it returns the groundwater and the water meets manufacturers specs. Originally I was dead set on closed loop. But if I save 5K it's going to take a lot of flushes and service calls to exceed that, provided by pump makes it and I don't forget to descale the coils. The installer will use the Waterfurnace program to help determine my best option. Thanks all for the help.

Also, any data on predicted lifespan for open or closed systems. Does the furnace or wells last longer for one than another. I'm 30 and this will likely be my last home.
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23 Nov 2009 06:24 AM
Folks with open loop systems go through a well pump every 8 years or so around here. At about $1,000 a whack, it can offset some of the savings.
While I don't mind open loops and don't subscribe to the notion that you can "waste" water, the difference in cost is generally <$5,000 if approached honestly and bordering on fools gold in my mind.
That said, open loops are still the #1 heat pump around me in MI.
Joe
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23 Nov 2009 07:56 AM
Posted By TechGromit on 11/20/2009 2:21 PM
Water usage shouldn't even come into the equation for an open loop system
 
[/quote]

I would disagree with this statement
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23 Nov 2009 08:10 AM
Posted By joe.ami on 11/23/2009 6:24 AM
Folks with open loop systems go through a well pump every 8 years or so around here. At about $1,000 a whack, it can offset some of the savings.

Joe
Well pump life isn't set at 8 years, my parents still have there original well water pump, after almost 30 years now, while it's true they don't have geo, the right pump could last quite some time.  The brand/quality of the pump, the depth of the well and how long the geo system has to run during the winter all have a factor on pump life.  To be fair, wells in NJ are only 30 or 40 feet deep, most residentail wells are 100 to 500 feet in depth, that's considerably deeper.

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23 Nov 2009 08:25 AM
Posted By TechGromit on 11/23/2009 8:10 AM
Posted By joe.ami on 11/23/2009 6:24 AM
Folks with open loop systems go through a well pump every 8 years or so around here. At about $1,000 a whack, it can offset some of the savings.

Joe
Well pump life isn't set at 8 years, my parents still have there original well water pump, after almost 30 years now, while it's true they don't have geo, the right pump could last quite some time.  The brand/quality of the pump, the depth of the well and how long the geo system has to run during the winter all have a factor on pump life.  To be fair, wells in NJ are only 30 or 40 feet deep, most residentail wells are 100 to 500 feet in depth, that's considerably deeper.


All true TG which is why I used the context of "around here" and "folks with open loop geo".
Some one with an extra million gallons of water pumping (for an open loop geo) each year probably won't enjoy 30 years of service as would an empty nest couple.
I do encourage folks who go open loop to look consider 2 stage equipment as the difference in water usage can be 100's of thousands of gallons.
Operating cost calculation software generally will calculate gals/yr as well.
J
Joe Hardin
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