What are most peoples preference for installing the 2nd floor joists on a SIP wall?  Do you install on top of the wall like typical construction, or do you hang from the SIP to eliminate the gap in SIP construction?  I am leaning towards installing on top and then spray foaming that area

We prefer balloon framed and hang off skin, creating a seamless wall

It’s really up to you. If you hang it, you lose about a foot of ceiling room, so you have to plan on having your walls a foot taller. If you place the I-joists on top of the wall, you will have a thermal leak every 16 inches where the I-joist meets the rim board. Personally, I prefer hanging it, as I I believe it makes for a tighter “envelope”.

Steve
GrandCountySIPs.com

I used floor trusses and put them on top of the wall. They were engineered for 24" OC. While there is a thermal break, I believe if it is insulated properly, that break is negated. Properly is the operative word there. I am kind of a freak and don't like the idea of them hanging on the skin. Seems like it is not as 'structurally sound'. Again, that is probably my own ignorance to how construction works. Anyway, my two cents.

My joists are hanging from the steel skin (with use of a rim track).

NFC, I think you are passing up one of the major problem-solving advantages of SIP technology by installing the joists on top. The rim joist is one of the most notorious energy loss areas in traditional American construction.

You can put the joists on the wall and then use an insulated rim board. Basically the rim board is 4.5" sip. This technique will provide for insulation and may (not always the case) eliminate the need for joist hangers.

The same question applies to the ground floor too, doesn't it? The SIPA "best practice" is to hang the first floor. The builder I'm talking to, who has built a few SIPS houses, kinda freaked when I asked about doing it that way. He couldn't see not having a floor to stand on when he placed the panels. Does he have a good point?

I hung both the first floor and the second floor on my house. I ran the first floor sheating over the floor joists and the treated plat. That allowed me to have a nice flat deck and I could start the SIPS on the plywood.

Could someone please do me a favor if they can and include a picture or a link to a picture that shows how these two options look? HAnging on the Rim joist and placing it on top of the rim joist. From what I have read one way is a huge energy loss. Thanks again

Have you considered using panels for your floor also. It may make things a little easier in some areas that you are talking about. Of course you will have to make a few design changes but they should not prove to be real obstacles.
sam

jmbeam, here is a pic of a couple of my floor joists, just placed into the rim track, which is hung from the wall.

The SIP panels are continuous, 22 feet from slab to top. At twelve feet up the rim track is hung from the inside skin, to place joists to form the second floor.

Hello NFC (original post), Sorry about the hijack of your original question, does any of this information help you?
sam

Yes, thanks. Although I still have a hard time grasping the hanging of the joists from the side of the OSB. I don't want to mention delamination, but it seems putting that much stress on that glued connection should be avoided if possible. I would feel much safer with the joists on top of the wall, I can spray foam the space, and put foam board on the outside of that rim. Plus it would give me easier access into the electrical chases.

We are building a house in the mountains in NM dealing with the same thing. First, the house is on a crawl space with a knee wall supporting a sip floor on top of the TJI floor joists. We put 20' walls on top of the SIP floor and have bolted a 2" x 12" board around the interior perimeter of the house to again, hang the 2nd floor TJI's on to support the 2nd floor.

We are using Simpson strong ties and the bolt through does exactly the opposite of what your concerns are about delam. The SIP envelope is a system that transfers load better than any other that I am aware of. By bolting in the, I guess you could call it a rim board, you put the weight into the ground through the walls. You are not carrying the load, but rather trying to transfer it efficiently.

Lastly, we hang our roof trusses in the wall as well using Simpson's ties also. As such, the SIP roof sits atop the wall directly and we have but to use a tiny bit of spray PU to seal any leaks and the envelope is tighter than you can imagine. Through in a ERV and the house will stay fresh and clean. Man I do so love building with SIPs...

I agree with bolting through the SIP is a safe method. I was under the impression people were just screwing hangers to the inside face of the OSB. And I assume you bolt from the outside in, to lessen the protrusion on the exterior surface? Got pics?

this is for metal but would be similar for OSB, the screw/washer are actually dimpled until they do not protrude

Chris's pictures are as close as I have seen. We use carriage bolts. I will be on the site Sat AM and will see if the sheetrock is up or if the siding is on. Will let you know. And yes we bolt outside in for the very reason.

I put long screws from the outside in on my rim track, but they were a sort of belt-and-suspenders idea for me as the long screws are not specified on the engineered drawings. Where you at, Simon?

Jelly;

Each screw has 3400 lb. shear value ...we don't always do that detail , but I like it better... if exterior is the finish and it is not practical to use thru screws, then we will bump 1-1/2" steel hi-hat furring to underside of rim joist track to help pick up load.

even without thru screws we can acheive over 4,000 lbs of shear value per joist between the fasteners in the rim joist track and furring below it, in most residential applications this would be about 5 x the value needed

Yes it just made me feel better to add them, just in case somebody wants to put like 50 sheets of plywood up there on two joists :)