Same thing just no solvent. Welcome back Chris...

It must be nice to create straw man arguments and then transition into personal attacks. I never said the fiberglass frames come raw and unpainted.

Look, I know you sell windows for a living and you believe fiberglass windows are the best. That's fine but like any building product or method, there are always drawbacks. Nothing is perfect and while I also believe fiberglass windows are an awesome product, I don't disregard the potential drawbacks to them.

Most fiberglass window frames are merely painted with a spray on type of paint. Chris mentioned that Pella are powder coated, which is a better and stronger coating. I've contacted all the major fiberglass window manufacturers and I was told that weather exposure such as ice, hail, rain, sun, etc., can and will eventually cause wearing of the paint. When the frame paint is chipped, scratched, or weathered, painting of the fiberglass frame is highly recommended as UV rays will cause damage to the fiberglass resins. They are NOT maintenance free window frames. The powder coated versions would provide a superior coating but most manufacturers simply spray on the paint.

Below is a fiberglass window frame from a top fiberglass manufacturer. As you can see the paint scratches easily and the corner paint chipped off. If it was left this way outside in the sun, the UV would start to break down the fiberglass resins. One would have to touch-up the frames with paint to protect them. Not a big deal but that is a drawback to them. They are not maintenance free and will require paint upkeep. Powder coated frames are the better way to protect fiberglass frames.

As mentioned, Thermotech Fiberglass Windows has an "F" rating on the BBB:

BBB Thermotech

The most recent complaint being in May 2013. When you research the complaints, the problem comes down to the fiberglass window frames are having issues. Once again, this is not to say all fiberglass windows have this problem but that if not done correctly, like any window frame option, you will have problems. There are cheap vinyl and good vinyl windows. There are cheap wood and good wood windows. There are cheap fiberglass and good fiberglass windows.

All things fade regardless of the composition, vinyl fades even faster. Paint on fiberglass will not come off under normal conditions. Sure if you scratch it off but that is no different than a car or anything else. Once installed windows are not made to be handled, bounced, carried, leaned on, dragged, etc. Same goes with aluminum windows. The good part about a fiberglass window is that if it comes to the point where the paint is failing(I haven't heard of this) you could field paint it and extend the life of the window even longer. Therefore this is a positive. If you like you can even get a 10 year <1 Delta E paint.

So why do some vinyl window manufacturers now painting their lineals? Part of the reason was that dark colors fade tremendously fast.The warranty on the adhesion of paint for fiberglass is typically lifetime. The best I heard for vinyl is 12 years, why? Paint is literally pigment and solvent, when the solvent evaporates then you have 100% pigment protecting the profiles as oppose to mixing the color into the profile. Paint is what makes fiberglass last...

Therefore under normal conditions fiberglass frames outlast...

Thermotech, first I will not comment on BBB as I have my opinion. Right, if they do something wrong people will complain.

Posted By windowrookie on 25 Jul 2013 05:03 PM
All things fade regardless of the composition, vinyl fades even faster. Paint on fiberglass will not come off under normal conditions. Sure if you scratch it off but that is no different than a car or anything else. Once installed windows are not made to be handled, bounced, carried, leaned on, dragged, etc. Same goes with aluminum windows. The good part about a fiberglass window is that if it comes to the point where the paint is failing(I haven't heard of this) you could field paint it and extend the life of the window even longer. Therefore this is a positive. If you like you can even get a 10 year <1 Delta E paint.

So why do some vinyl window manufacturers now painting their lineals? Part of the reason was that dark colors fade tremendously fast.The warranty on the adhesion of paint for fiberglass is typically lifetime. The best I heard for vinyl is 12 years, why? Paint is literally pigment and solvent, when the solvent evaporates then you have 100% pigment protecting the profiles as oppose to mixing the color into the profile. Paint is what makes fiberglass last...

Therefore under normal conditions fiberglass frames outlast...

Thermotech, first I will not comment on BBB as I have my opinion. Right, if they do something wrong people will complain.

As far as the warranty on the adhesion of paint on fiberglass or any windows for that matter, the warranties are only as enforceable as the manufacturer wants them to be. ALL the major window manufacturers have denied warranties on "Lifetime Warranty" windows. Pella, Andersen, Milgard, etc., all of them have done it. They hire lawyers whose job it is to find ways to include verbiage in the fine print of the warranties that gives them the wiggle room to deny a claim. I've experienced it myself, as everyone I know who owns a newer home, they all had a "Lifetime Warranty" window claims denied.

Basic vinyl windows in and of themselves are not a good idea for long term durability. I don't deny that. Engineers took notice and stepped up to make a mediocore product better. So some manufacturers spent the money and engineered a better vinyl windows by using uPVC, and then reinforced them with steel c-channels, installed laminates to protect the PVC, used flexible seals, etc. Top PVC manufacturers know about the limits of vinyl windows and UV rays. That is why good manufacturers use a laminating process that laminates over the PVC and the laminate contains UV protection and actually rejects the heat and UV to better protect the vinyl underneath it.

That is why one cannot make a blanketed statement that all vinyl windows are bad. Sure, most are bad but not all. Just like with fiberglass windows, some junk windows have been produced, yet not all are like that.

In the long run, I agree a GOOD quality fiberglass window will probably outlast a PVC window. By how much? That still is not determined because fiberglass is still a newbie in the mainstream residential building arena. A top quality PVC window should last 30 years according to what I have read and people I spoke to.

First of all, I(and probably others here) appreciate the tone from a yelling match to a discussion. I will do my best to do the same, thanks.

Accurate Dorwin made the first window in the mid 80's followed by the other Canadians so fiberglass is not a newbie. Correct me if I am wrong. However I agree with you that there are good and bad ones both fiberglass and vinyl.

Warranties are something I do not want to talk about. This is a minefield waiting to explode but most reasonable companies will stand behind them. I stress most...

I've used both Anderson 400 and Lincoln windows and doors with success; I've never had any significant issues. The Lincolns in my current(timberframe) house look like new when I cleaned the exteriors this spring after five years of use. I used simulated divided lite and they look good. I had a couple of casement operating arms that needed replacing and Lincoln was responsive.

We just used them in our new home and sorry we did. I built an ICF 8600 sq ft. We wanted black frame windows that opened outward on a crank. This was the only company we found. You can stand in front of the doors and feel the draft. When you lie in bed near a window you can feel a draft. Sorry I used them. Big disaapointment.