I had a quote for Andersen Windows, but my contractor says he can get me Marvin Integrity windows with his discount at a local lumber yard for cheaper, but I want to know if Marvin Integrity is good or better than Andersen 400 series?

Anyone know?

Thanks!

I have used various brands of windows over the years.  So far I like the Marvin Integrity windows (pultruded fiberglass) the most.  I do not want to use wood anymore.  Too many problems.

Do a search on windows, Andersen and Marvin specifically, at www.jlconline.com. You'll find a lot of comments both ways about those windows, and a lot of others. Do your research, decide which one you are most comfortable with considering cost, performance, looks, features, etc., and go with it. Don't look back and ignore anyone who tells you you made a mistake!

I will say this from my own research. Casement and awning windows are the tightest and have the lowest infiltration rate. Check out my comments in these threads

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/view/topic/forumid/16/postid/31380/Default.aspx.

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/view/topic/forumid/16/postid/31848/Default.aspx

Thanks Dmaceld. We decided on the Marvins. We went to the showroom and I really liked the way the windows opened so smoothly. The Andersen ones we had tried where tougher to crank out. Also, we liked what we read about fiberglass, and I liked the look of the window.

We haven't moved in yet, but I've had many occasions over the past six months to open and close our combination of large Marvin and Marvin Integrity casement windows, and Marvin Integrity awning windows (will have remote control motorized operators for clerestory windows).

They operate silky smooth. Occasional popping noise. The skinny latching lever on the Marvin Integrity is a pain to fully engage/disengage. Their energy specs are good. The 3'x3' Marvins seem to sag a tiny bit on initial opening, but all seem solid and secure in any position.

My biggest complaint: for a window that expensive I would have expected them to be delivered with protective films that could be peeled off at the end of construction. It's going to be a time consuming, messy chore to clean all those filthy windows.

The DP is around 35-45 I forget which one, but you can upgrade to a 50 I think but you have to pay more to reinforce.

The Design Pressure ratings and more information for the Marvin Wood-Ultrex windows (the kind I have) may be found here:
http://www.integritywindows.com/?page=Request_Literature_Confirm&m=D&p1=8&p1=@2downloadableliteraturepieces&p1=@3downloadableliteraturepieces&d1=%2c&p2=&d2=%2c;

It shows a DP 50 for the casement and awning windows I have, DP 40 for double hung.

Before taking Windowrookie's statment that, "Anything lower than 50 is not any good," at face value, I'd read this thread at GardenWeb for some solid information on DP.
http://www.thathomesite.com/forums/load/windows/msg0809090610559.html?18

David

Sorry, what I meant to say is that I think it would be a wise decision to get the reinforcement and the higher DP rating...

DP ratings with Weathershields (and possibly other brands) was a function of installation practice. A standard install would give you something like DP35, I dont remember exactly what it was. If you wanted DP50(or 55?) you needed to install the window a bit differently. The one point I didn't like about the DP50 install was the application of sealant on the bottom window flange and membrane flashing over the flange. It makes sense to achieve a better DP rating but in practice is bad practice. Its one instance in my opinion where trying to get your high DP rating is actually counter productive in terms of quality.

Sealing the bottom flange of a window is a great way to trap water in a wall unless the window has drip holes beyond the flange.  I have seen one brand name that could be sealed and still drain.

We started construction on our colonial in April.  I decided to go with the Integrity all Ultrex (no wood trim) as an upgrade.  These are advertised as lifetime windows.  We didn't want wood trim because we did not want the maintenance of refinishing them over time. 

When they came in, I wasn't real impressed with the construction.  Without the wood trim, they are very thin feel kind of flimsy.  The framers weren't real impressed either.  Two weeks after the install, one of the springs let go on the release lever that allows the window to tip out.  The lever still works, but the spring no longer pushes it back in place, so you have to make sure you do it manually.

Now the temps are getting down to the high 30's-low 40's.  I have condensation forming on the glass and the bottom of both the upper and lower sash.  You can feel the cold coming through.  These are not as energy efficient as I would have expected for a window of this cost.  I am not very happy.

They are definately not a lifetime window, but it sounds like you have a couple issues to deal with.  The broken spring should be a warranty repair.

Cold coming in should also not happen.  Where exactly do you feel it at?  I would not rule out an install issue there...

Finally, condensation on the interior more often points to an interior humidity and air problem then a window.  Sure, the interior glass should not be getting quite that cold, however your humidity levels might be too high in your house, or perhaps you do not have a good designed ductwork system to direct air flow to your exterior walls.

those are just my thoughts....

The worst areas are the corners between the upper and lower sash.  There seems to be a lack of a seal in this area and also at the very bottom of the window.  The top and sides of the sash have no condensation issues.  The only windows in the house that do not have this issue are the sliding glass door and the set of three double hungs in my living room.  Some windows have less condensation than others, but almost all of them have it.

I just installed 9 Marvin Integrity doublehungs in a new addition. I've had the same experience as did rbrais. There is considerable air leak on each side where the sashes meet. In fact, I can see daylight coming in from outside on every window. There is a gap in the weather strip. It's the same on each window, so it's not one bad window. These windows were installed properly. They are all square, level and plumb. The sashes work fine. Fortunately for me I advised against them, but the customer insisted on them, so I'm off the hook. However, it's frustrating to take the time, care and expense to build a superior thermal envelope only to have 18 air leaks curtesy of Marvin. I've installed cheap vinyl doublehungs that are more air tight than these. IMO fiberglass is the way to go, but that doesn't mean all fiberglass windows are made well.

where shims used on the sides of the windows?

Yes, the windows were shimmed, but this problem is due to poor design, not faulty installation. The opening I'm talking about is not a vertical gap between the jamb and the sash. That space is closed up fine.

If I may . . . before you say what you have "dont buy these windows", could I suggest you call the 800 Marvin # and ask for the Integrity window customer service. Let them know what your issue is, and that you can see daylight or feel air infiltrating at the sash corners. I can bet, no, almost guarantee that Marvin will treat you right. they may send you back to your distributor (or retailer), but they will make every effort to be sure that your window problems are solved. Manufacturing is a crazy animal. They could have a bad run of their weather striping machine or something, and not know it for 200 windows before its caught, or something similar, but their reputation is golden to them. Some people you just cannot please,but Marvin will try. They always have for me. Unlike many other companies, Marvin is still family owned and not a public company.

I strongly suggest that you too call Marvin's 800# as in my previous post. Or, If you go to their website, at the bottom of the page is a "contact" link and a "warranty" link. read the warranty link information all the way to the bottom so you will have all the information you need. Note that they ask you to contact your retailer first, if the retailer doesn't respond in 5 days, to contact them. . . . . Thats pretty impressive. Please let us all know how they do, I have been a Marvin fan for many years and I would like to know how they handle the situation.

We have had the same results from our Marvin Integrity Windows. At our builders suggestion, we had Marvin Integrity windows installed in our new home in 2007. Since then we have been in a constant battle with moisture on the windows during the winter months. We have set our indoor humidistat as low as 28% and we get the same results. You can almost read the outdoor temp by the amount of moisture on the windows. When the outdoor temp reaches anything below 20 degrees, the moisture starts to build. Most of the winter the windows are frozen shut which is a major fire safety concern. I will take the advice of Jhark312 and contact Marvin for a solution.

jwthomes:

Are these the all fiberglass windows inside and out, or the wood/fiberglass combination units?  Whats the average outside temperature when the icing occurs?

Its important to note that any moisture collecting on the glass inside the home GENERALLY is a function of excessive moisture inside the house.  Look for sources of moisture such as leaky Dryer vents, boiling water, unvented bathrooms during hot showers, unvented gas appliances susch as fireplaces, space heaters, stove, oven, etc. (produce moisture as when burning), crawl space with no vapor barier.

Before you blame the windows (becuuse ANY WINDOW COMPANY will respond the same as I did above), run out to the store and get you a Digital Hygrometer (i have the Acu-Rite 00613 Digital Hygrometer - about 7 -9 bucks at WalMart or Lowes or on line) or even a couple of them, they are cheap, but really give you a lot of information about the air and temps in your house. No need to get fancy with expensive wireless units, etc. just a basic units that gives you the 411.   put one on either side of your house or seperate floors, etc.  use them to help find the highest moisture area. I promise you that a company technician will have one with him when they come to investigate an icing claim.

Here's the deal.  Even with your humidistat @ 28%, if you have other sources of moisture in your house, you may well be sitting on humidity levels at or near the 50 - 60% range when combined with the humidistat pusing moisture into the air.  Relative humidity is a funny thing (I am a flyer and study weather & atmospheric conditions).  The air can be the same temperature from one day to the next outside, but can be dry one day, and saturated with moisture the next.  Many factors contribute to relative humidity.   The important thing to know, is that moisture in the air will ALWAYS condensate on a surface that is at or below the dew point.  so, if the glass on the window is below the dew point for the conditions INSIDE your home, they will attract and condense water. 

Also, were you present when your contractor installed the windows?  there are a couple of important factors there as well.  these are irrespective of the humidity inside the home, but can be a contributing factor. 
Did the contractor seal the openings from the exterior at the very least caulk around the full perimiter? Did he use a foam rope looking product called backer rod?  Did they insulate around the windows with fiberglass or expanding foam before they finished the installation on the inside? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6cA...re=related) <----- heres a video of how it should be done.

Warm and cool air seek each other to equilibriate.  If you are confident of all of these things, and have checked them, and sure that it is the windows that are not performing . . . then I would call the warranty department, and I would state emphatically that you have checked moisture content, insulation and sealing around the window frames, and it is none of these issues.

Further, When contacting Marvin for warranty support, if they do not respond timely and satisfy your problem with your new windows, you should let them know that you are not satisfied that the windows are performing according to the NFRC ratings for energy performance as claimed and required by US DOE Energy Star.   And if no satisfaction is reached, then tell them that you will contact WDMA (Window and Door Manufacturing Assoc.) and lodge a formal complaint.  (WDMA.Com).  This is a big deal to Marvin, Andersen, Jeld-Wen, Pella, Etc. because many of them are "Hallmark Certified"  (https://www.wdma.com/HallmarkCertif...fault.aspx) and that means they are required to meet a specific standard in manufacturing.  this is a BIG selling point to Architects and builder communities, and they pay tons of cash to tested independantly by WDMA and stay in this program.  They would not take that threat lightly.

In summary, I would follow the step I outlined above.  Many people like to throw their weight and attitudes of frustration around.  Don't break out the big guns (WDMA) first, but go gently unitl you get your issue resolved, or you will likely be embarrassed when they come out and prove to you that it is the fault of the installer, installation issues, or the moisture content in the home that is the cause of the problem.  Not only will they walk away from your claim, but they may bill you for an "unwarranted service call" if they send a national sales rep or service tech out.  Remember, the people that are taking your call and trying to help, are people just like you.  and they didn't directly assemble your windows or intentionally sell you a non perfoming product. (but you do need to be firm)

Lastly, there is NO excuse for daylight showing through your window at any area.  Nor should you ever feel a breeze or air passing through it.  Window & door  manufactureres are not immune to manufacturing issues and tolerances being out of spec.  Daylight issues around sashes, in corners, or air leakage anywhere inside the frame of the window can easily be tested with an incence stick that wafts smoke or a grill lighter.  There is always going to be a convesctive action at a window when the temps vary greatly, but the air (smoke or flame) should not move quickly or show signs of any hrizontal "gusty" movement.  if it does, document it, and call the manufacturer or disrtuibutor rep.  If they do come to fix your problem, watch them do it.  Dont hawk and get in thier way, but see how they fix it, and make sure they are not just making a temporary fix to a long term problem.