I'm trying to ascertain if I can fit Daikin products in my budget before I start wasting anyone else's time (sorry Rob).

Through my Title 24 analyst, I'll need a little over 30,000 BTU, and based on my research and talking with the Daikin rep, this is the equipment I'm considering.

BTW, this is for a forced air ducted system, although I could convert the system over to radiant with a little plumbing work and ancillary equipment.

Monobloc units:
EDLQ36B6VJU (heating only)
or
EBLQ36B6VJU (Heating & cooling)

Domestic Water Heaters
EKHWSO50BA3VJU (50 gal DWH)
EKHWSO80BA3VJU (80 gal DWH)

and I'm also interested in and price and model # of their rebadged air handler.

I don't want to yet get into whether this is the proper equipment for my needs, at this time. Just trying to get a feel if this stuff is in my budget, and then I can go from there.  I know Daikin Altherma equipment is upper crust expensive.  I also know that it is frugal on power consumption.  If someone could provide MSRP for the above models, I could go from there, or cross it off my list.  I'm finiding that if I woudl have done this on some other recent choices, I would have saved my self (and more importantly, a few other folks) a lot of time. So I'm starting to approach choices for this home I'm building differently now.  Thanks in advance

the 030 split model is likely to be at least $3k to $4k less expensive and will service your heating load with no problem. I don't see any good argument for the 036 on your system unless you are net zero'ing and willing to pay more for the heat source to pay less for PV, or if your cooling load demands it, which I don't believe is the case in this area.

your best route here is to ask your local installer for installed price estimation on the two units. varies widely by local market.

If they get really excessive, import a couple of Fujitsu Waterstage HPs. One for a spare.

"your best route here is to ask your local installer for installed price estimation on the two units. varies widely by local market. "

Excellent advice, since the appliance is worthless in a box and worth less if installed improperly.

Posted By NRT.Rob on 15 May 2013 09:07 AM
the 030 split model is likely to be at least $3k to $4k less expensive and will service your heating load with no problem. I don't see any good argument for the 036 on your system unless you are net zero'ing and willing to pay more for the heat source to pay less for PV, or if your cooling load demands it, which I don't believe is the case in this area.

your best route here is to ask your local installer for installed price estimation on the two units. varies widely by local market.

I saw you mention that before.

I don't see this 030 unit in the Daikin brochure.  They list the split units, where the hydrobox is a separate indoor unit and refrigerant lines run out side and the monobloc where the hydrobox is included in the outdoor unit and heated water is indooors to the DMW.

036 is the BTU's (from what I've been told) and there is an 048 and 054 (48K & 54k btus respectively) Link to the 030?

You are looking at a really old brochure then (030s and smaller were introduced later). http://www.daikinac.com/content/residential/whole-house/daikin-altherma/

In your climate the 036 will be more efficient but at your heat load and likely cooling load I doubt the upgrade is cost effective. again, unless you are going for net zero.

The 030 unit (I'm guessing) on the brochure that I found on their web site is not a monobloc unit, it is a split unit with the hydrobox located indoors, and it is only good for 28K btu. Based on my load calcs I need about 32K btu.

Make sure you are using actual btu/hr, not nominal.

I don't know, but my guess is that a monobloc HP (no refrigerant work) is one of the easier HVAC installs.

Posted By jonr on 15 May 2013 08:42 PM
Make sure you are using actual btu/hr, not nominal.

I don't know, but my guess is that a monobloc HP (no refrigerant work) is one of the easier HVAC installs.

So Rob, is this mythical 030 unit a monobloc?  or separate heat pump with a separate inside hydrobox?  Unicorns are easier to locate

I self installed a Daikin Altherma system.. a *LOT* more work then I thought.. Took some effort, but I did manage to get the local distributor to sell to me.. I did have to prove I was ready and had the right help.. I'm not sure if I'm aloud to discuss pricing on the forum.. but, I could've bought a VERY nice used car(2006ish) for what it cost me..

So here are the MSRPrices on the equipment in mind
Monobloc units:
EDLQ36B6VJU (heating only) $11,143
or
EBLQ36B6VJU (Heating & cooling) $12,108

Domestic Water Heaters
EKHWSO50BA3VJU (50 gal DWH) $1865
EKHWSO80BA3VJU (80 gal DWH) $1685

Rebadged air handler
EFWT036AEVL $1911

So, if I did the heating only, along with the 50 gal DWH & air handler, those components alone would be $14,919, not including control, plumbing, ancillary equip or installation.

Posted By tomtoth on 16 May 2013 04:26 PM
I'm not sure if I'm aloud to discuss pricing on the forum.. but, I could've bought a VERY nice used car(2006ish) for what it cost me..

Or a nice geothermal system and then you would have enjoyed a 30% tax credit.

Posted By joe.ami on 17 May 2013 07:40 AM

Posted By tomtoth on 16 May 2013 04:26 PM
I'm not sure if I'm aloud to discuss pricing on the forum.. but, I could've bought a VERY nice used car(2006ish) for what it cost me..

Or a nice geothermal system and then you would have enjoyed a 30% tax credit.

If you add the Daikin Altherma solar kit (it allows a roof top passive solar water heater array to integrate into the Altherma DWH) the whole suite of Daikin equipment (HP; DWH; Solar Kit and Rooftop solar water heater) is eligible for a 30% federal tax credit, according to the Daikin rep.  He indicated they were able to get this approved with the feds to compete with Geo Thermal units on the market.

in MY climate, with its onboard backups (6kw), it will do 35kBTU/hr up to 120 SWT at -4 deg F. about 14kbtu heat pump and 21 backup at that outdoor temp.

in trinidad, it will do significantly more.

also, it's about half the cost of the 036-054. and I haven't seen a geo system with dirt work that can hit the install cost of an altherma even with tax credit.

Posted By NRT.Rob on 17 May 2013 11:53 AM
also, it's about half the cost of the 036-054. and I haven't seen a geo system with dirt work that can hit the install cost of an altherma even with tax credit.

That's probably true, but the dirt work costs vary dramatically with location.

But it would be hard for geo to beat the Altherma even on raw heating COP with slab as the radiation in that climate- and there are simply fewer design risks with the Altherma than with geo, even if the post-subsidy costs came out the same. (Though like anything, the more foolproof you try to make something, the more creative the fools become.   There are reasons the Altherma isn't as DIY friendly as a mini-split.)

I did the 30% tax credit last year on my system. Yes, Daikin has a peice of paper that says it is(Or eligible for the tax credit.. Now if the IRS says the same(Yet to be decided).. I'll find out in a couple of years. I attached the sheet if you want to take a look.

That's the solar tax credit, which you got because you put solar on your daikin tank. the heatpump itself doesn't have a credit and the solar credit basically pays for the solar. so you can get "free solar DHW assist" with the altherma if that credit works out.

The Daikin rep explained/described to me that the tax credit applied to the heat pump, the DWH and the solar kit (but not the air handler), but that could have been a salesman trying sell stuff. But his argument that it was a solution that allowed them to be competitive with geothermal that made some semblance of sense.

yes, it does. if you total up the amount of the credit for most people it will basically pay for all the solar components. in our area they are quite competitive with geothermal anyway, as long as geo doesn't take their credit on ducts, pipes, flooring material or any other silliness that they are specifically excluded from claiming.